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End of the road for 'remote' bin collections
CONTROVERSIAL proposals which will spell the end of rubbish collections outside people's homes in remote areas near York have been given the go-ahead.
Although some countryside homeowners will still have waste picked up from their properties rather than leaving it by the nearest main road, they must agree to pay for any damage caused to bin lorries.
The scheme has already been criticised amid claims elderly people will struggle to ferry their weekly rubbish to collection points which may be some distance from their homes. The council says it is introducing the "lane-end" policy because refuse trucks have been damaged by driving along farm tracks and poor rural roads, and the arrangements will bring it into line with neighbouring local authorities, as well as improving health and safety by reducing the risk of accidents.
It means collection vehicles will not use private roads, tracks or drives leading to one or two homes, and will only agree to pick-ups on private, out-of-town routes serving three or more properties if the homeowners agree to indemnify the council for any damage caused.
James Alexander, prospective Labour candidate for the new York Outer ward, said: "I'm disappointed by this decision - it's wrong for people to pay more through their council tax and then get less services. Where is the value-for-money we keep hearing about? It's wrong for there to be a difference between the level of service given to residents in the city and those who live in the rural outskirts."
Fishergate councillor Dave Taylor asked the council to retain its previous collection system and only refuse to use roads marked out as hazardous. He said: "The evidence doesn't demonstrate a need to change the status quo."
But Coun Andrew Waller, Liberal Democrat member for neighbourhood services, said: "There has been an instance where an overturned vehicle caused the death of a council employee, and we need to take health and safety very seriously. If experienced drivers are ending up in difficulties, we would be abdicating our responsibility not to change the policy."
One 69-year-old homeowner from Poppleton, who will be affected by the changes, but asked not to be named, said: "It's ridiculous. I live almost half-a-mile from the nearest main road and now I'm expected to haul my rubbish there rain, hail or shine."
Have your say
Do you think bin lorries should stop going down rural lanes?
10:45am Tuesday 25th March 2008
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CommentPosted by: what???, york on 11:22am Tue 25 Mar 08
does the story not say that they are stopping using private lanes and drives.... Why should the bin lorries be driving onto private property. Everyone who lives in the city boundaries has to take their bin to the roadside and does not get it picked up from their back door.
All this does is make the country dwellers have to do the same thing... not our fault that their drives are far longer than if they lived in the City.
does the story not say that they are stopping using private lanes and drives.... Why should the bin lorries be driving onto private property. Everyone who lives in the city boundaries has to take their bin to the roadside and does not get it picked up from their back door.
All this does is make the country dwellers have to do the same thing... not our fault that their drives are far longer than if they lived in the City.
Posted by: Hawker, Home on 11:31am Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote]But Coun Andrew Waller, Liberal Democrat member for neighbourhood services, said: "There has been an instance where an overturned vehicle caused the death of a council employee, and we need to take health and safety very seriously. "[/quote]
Should have taken it seriously before, big difference between a bin lorry and a grass cutting tractor. Going down country lanes is not dangerous, if the roads are looked after.
But Coun Andrew Waller, Liberal Democrat member for neighbourhood services, said: "There has been an instance where an overturned vehicle caused the death of a council employee, and we need to take health and safety very seriously. "
Should have taken it seriously before, big difference between a bin lorry and a grass cutting tractor. Going down country lanes is not dangerous, if the roads are looked after.
Posted by: franky, york on 11:54am Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote]Have your say
Do you think bin lorries should stop going down rural lanes?[/quote]
Yes!
Have your say
Do you think bin lorries should stop going down rural lanes?
Yes!
Posted by: Peter, york on 12:54pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote]Although some countryside homeowners will still have waste picked up from their properties rather than leaving it by the nearest main road, they must agree to pay for any damage caused to bin lorries.[/quote]
What even if it's blatantly the bin lorry's driver's fault.
Although some countryside homeowners will still have waste picked up from their properties rather than leaving it by the nearest main road, they must agree to pay for any damage caused to bin lorries.
What even if it's blatantly the bin lorry's driver's fault.
Posted by: Stephen, York on 1:26pm Tue 25 Mar 08
But Coun Andrew Waller, Liberal Democrat member for neighbourhood services, said: "There has been an instance where an overturned vehicle caused the death of a council employee, and we need to take health and safety very seriously. If experienced drivers are ending up in difficulties, we would be abdicating our responsibility not to change the policy."
MEANS: NOT prepared to use Waste collection Companies/council Public Liability insurance cover for claims occuring on private land.
If they did collections company Employee and Public Liability insurance premiums would go through the roof thus making a loss on the current contract.
Basically:
Yorwates/Council failed to carry out a Health and Safety Risk Analysis at the same time as it carried out its Financial/business risk analysis before signing the 10yr Waste Removal contract.
Muppets....
But Coun Andrew Waller, Liberal Democrat member for neighbourhood services, said: "There has been an instance where an overturned vehicle caused the death of a council employee, and we need to take health and safety very seriously. If experienced drivers are ending up in difficulties, we would be abdicating our responsibility not to change the policy."
MEANS: NOT prepared to use Waste collection Companies/council Public Liability insurance cover for claims occuring on private land.
If they did collections company Employee and Public Liability insurance premiums would go through the roof thus making a loss on the current contract.
Basically:
Yorwates/Council failed to carry out a Health and Safety Risk Analysis at the same time as it carried out its Financial/business risk analysis before signing the 10yr Waste Removal contract.
Muppets....
Posted by: yorkie, york on 1:49pm Tue 25 Mar 08
how many other subcontractors are given the same 10 year/change whenever you like/make as convenient as you want contracts i wonder as yorwaste (co owned by york and n yorks councils) how about pricing up services and offering us ALL the opportunity to opt out!
how many other subcontractors are given the same 10 year/change whenever you like/make as convenient as you want contracts i wonder as yorwaste (co owned by york and n yorks councils) how about pricing up services and offering us ALL the opportunity to opt out!
Posted by: what???, york on 2:14pm Tue 25 Mar 08
good idea Yorkie, the opportunity to opt out of services.. will save me a fortune.... what can i opt out of
1. city education system.
2. leisure centre services
3. libraries etc
4. recycling (as they don't provide me a service)
5. council housing
6. paying towards housing benefit
the list could go on and on and my council tax drop dramatically!
good idea Yorkie, the opportunity to opt out of services.. will save me a fortune.... what can i opt out of
1. city education system.
2. leisure centre services
3. libraries etc
4. recycling (as they don't provide me a service)
5. council housing
6. paying towards housing benefit
the list could go on and on and my council tax drop dramatically!
Posted by: Mullarkian, York on 2:57pm Tue 25 Mar 08
What's Waller on about - the fatal accident was a grass cutting machine overturning on a slope.
It has nothing to do with refuse collection
What's Waller on about - the fatal accident was a grass cutting machine overturning on a slope.
It has nothing to do with refuse collection
Posted by: Stephen, York on 3:18pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Mullarkian[/bold] wrote:
What's Waller on about - the fatal accident was a grass cutting machine overturning on a slope. It has nothing to do with refuse collection[/quote] All contract activities have an underlying risk.
Be it cutting grass or collecting waste.
They just plainly forgot about Insurance liability RISKS and who is actually liable for claims.
Mullarkian wrote:
What's Waller on about - the fatal accident was a grass cutting machine overturning on a slope. It has nothing to do with refuse collection
All contract activities have an underlying risk.
Be it cutting grass or collecting waste.
They just plainly forgot about Insurance liability RISKS and who is actually liable for claims.
Posted by: smithsmh1, York on 3:20pm Tue 25 Mar 08
I feel a lot of concern on two counts:
1: Not all rural inhabitants are rich or have taken a life choice of where to live. Many countrysiders are from families who have grown up and worked in the locale and/or have been among the lower paid sectors of our workforce. Nice to know they can look forward to struggling with their rubbish bins in their old age or when suffering from infirmaties.
2: The knock-on effect to our environment as people just start joining the 'dumping brigade'. There is already too much of that going on and this decision by the Council can only make the situation worse.
I feel a lot of concern on two counts:
1: Not all rural inhabitants are rich or have taken a life choice of where to live. Many countrysiders are from families who have grown up and worked in the locale and/or have been among the lower paid sectors of our workforce. Nice to know they can look forward to struggling with their rubbish bins in their old age or when suffering from infirmaties.
2: The knock-on effect to our environment as people just start joining the 'dumping brigade'. There is already too much of that going on and this decision by the Council can only make the situation worse.
Posted by: bjb, York on 3:31pm Tue 25 Mar 08
I have driven a refuse vehicle on these country rounds and believe me you don't have a bone in your body that does not ache after tracking up and down many hardcore road, and a lot that have had no attention for years, and have many potholes. Apart from the health and safety of the driver and crew, the wagons do take a severe pounding. This has to be paid for by the majority.
In the case of time, and damage to vehicles, our Green party friends might want to consider what impact a large lorry has on the environment if you were to calculate the collective miles travelled up and down these lanes and collect half a bin of waste in many cases. I cannot believe Dave Taylor not supporting this. Of course it's another bandwagon that make them forget what they stand for.
I have driven a refuse vehicle on these country rounds and believe me you don't have a bone in your body that does not ache after tracking up and down many hardcore road, and a lot that have had no attention for years, and have many potholes. Apart from the health and safety of the driver and crew, the wagons do take a severe pounding. This has to be paid for by the majority.
In the case of time, and damage to vehicles, our Green party friends might want to consider what impact a large lorry has on the environment if you were to calculate the collective miles travelled up and down these lanes and collect half a bin of waste in many cases. I cannot believe Dave Taylor not supporting this. Of course it's another bandwagon that make them forget what they stand for.
Posted by: andyb2, york on 3:36pm Tue 25 Mar 08
I suspect the major section of the rural population to be affected will be farmers. They used to take milk churns to the roadside, so this isn`t much difference. Any other people who are off the beaten track and unable to get their bins there could contact social services, surely?
I suspect the major section of the rural population to be affected will be farmers. They used to take milk churns to the roadside, so this isn`t much difference. Any other people who are off the beaten track and unable to get their bins there could contact social services, surely?
Posted by: bjb, York on 3:42pm Tue 25 Mar 08
smithsmh1.
Are you seriously suggesting that someone will not only travel down their lane, that they cannot do now, but several miles to a quiet country road to flytip?
As andyb2 says, most are farming folk and have people up and down their lanes all day long. There is help available for those that genuinely need it, as there is in York.
It's just another chance to do a bit more council bashing, particularly by the press.
smithsmh1.
Are you seriously suggesting that someone will not only travel down their lane, that they cannot do now, but several miles to a quiet country road to flytip?
As andyb2 says, most are farming folk and have people up and down their lanes all day long. There is help available for those that genuinely need it, as there is in York.
It's just another chance to do a bit more council bashing, particularly by the press.
Posted by: DA, York on 3:45pm Tue 25 Mar 08
I bet the proposers and supporters of the decision only have to wheel their bins a few yards/metres!
I bet the proposers and supporters of the decision only have to wheel their bins a few yards/metres!
Posted by: Stephen, York on 4:39pm Tue 25 Mar 08
This smells more like cover my backside after the horse has bolted through the open gates.
1. Are the vehicles fit for purpose.
2. What will/can affect those vehicles Dust cart or powered grass cutter.
3. Electrical waste legislation July 2007
4. Business/household landfill regulations October 2007
5. Minimum Carbon footprint legislation on all government buildings and vehicles including local authority buildings and vehicles as of April this year (Which also contains contracted services).
Responsibility is just an after thought after the incident has occured and not before it.
This smells more like cover my backside after the horse has bolted through the open gates.
1. Are the vehicles fit for purpose.
2. What will/can affect those vehicles Dust cart or powered grass cutter.
3. Electrical waste legislation July 2007
4. Business/household landfill regulations October 2007
5. Minimum Carbon footprint legislation on all government buildings and vehicles including local authority buildings and vehicles as of April this year (Which also contains contracted services).
Responsibility is just an after thought after the incident has occured and not before it.
Posted by: opinionated, Haxby on 4:43pm Tue 25 Mar 08
I kinda agree with this, though I can see some people's points. Maybe a slight reduction in council tax would compensate? Not loads mind, as they're still having rubbish removed. As in any situation like this one some people will be left worse off, some better off.
I kinda agree with this, though I can see some people's points. Maybe a slight reduction in council tax would compensate? Not loads mind, as they're still having rubbish removed. As in any situation like this one some people will be left worse off, some better off.
Posted by: R675, York on 4:49pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote][bold]bjb[/bold] wrote:
I have driven a refuse vehicle on these country rounds and believe me you don't have a bone in your body that does not ache after tracking up and down many hardcore road, and a lot that have had no attention for years, and have many potholes. Apart from the health and safety of the driver and crew, the wagons do take a severe pounding. This has to be paid for by the majority. In the case of time, and damage to vehicles, our Green party friends might want to consider what impact a large lorry has on the environment if you were to calculate the collective miles travelled up and down these lanes and collect half a bin of waste in many cases. I cannot believe Dave Taylor not supporting this. Of course it's another bandwagon that make them forget what they stand for.[/quote] Its part of the job stop complaining!! You knew when you took the job you would have to drive down roads..pretty pathetic to then say well I am only going to drive down certain ones because the others are far too bumpy!
bjb wrote:
I have driven a refuse vehicle on these country rounds and believe me you don't have a bone in your body that does not ache after tracking up and down many hardcore road, and a lot that have had no attention for years, and have many potholes. Apart from the health and safety of the driver and crew, the wagons do take a severe pounding. This has to be paid for by the majority. In the case of time, and damage to vehicles, our Green party friends might want to consider what impact a large lorry has on the environment if you were to calculate the collective miles travelled up and down these lanes and collect half a bin of waste in many cases. I cannot believe Dave Taylor not supporting this. Of course it's another bandwagon that make them forget what they stand for.
Its part of the job stop complaining!! You knew when you took the job you would have to drive down roads..pretty pathetic to then say well I am only going to drive down certain ones because the others are far too bumpy!
Posted by: Gardener, York on 5:32pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote][bold]what???[/bold] wrote:
good idea Yorkie, the opportunity to opt out of services.. will save me a fortune.... what can i opt out of 1. city education system. 2. leisure centre services 3. libraries etc 4. recycling (as they don't provide me a service) 5. council housing 6. paying towards housing benefit the list could go on and on and my council tax drop dramatically![/quote] .. add to that policing as you might as well do that yourself... so what are childless people who don't use sports facilities, buses or libraries paying for besides having their rubbish taken for analysis?
what??? wrote:
good idea Yorkie, the opportunity to opt out of services.. will save me a fortune.... what can i opt out of 1. city education system. 2. leisure centre services 3. libraries etc 4. recycling (as they don't provide me a service) 5. council housing 6. paying towards housing benefit the list could go on and on and my council tax drop dramatically!
.. add to that policing as you might as well do that yourself... so what are childless people who don't use sports facilities, buses or libraries paying for besides having their rubbish taken for analysis?
Posted by: see sense, york on 5:56pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote]The council says it is introducing the "lane-end" policy because refuse trucks have been damaged by driving along farm tracks and poor rural roads,[/quote]
Maybe they shuold look after them better then. I can understand them not going down private roads. But expecting people to take houshold waste to the nearest main road is bit much in my opinion.
The council says it is introducing the "lane-end" policy because refuse trucks have been damaged by driving along farm tracks and poor rural roads,
Maybe they shuold look after them better then. I can understand them not going down private roads. But expecting people to take houshold waste to the nearest main road is bit much in my opinion.
Posted by: sayitasitis, YORK on 7:49pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Hang on a minute, i have to wheel my wheelie bin to the roadside, it takes 2 minutes once a fortnight.Lets put some perspective on this,regardless of the fact it is a private road etc, the people in these houses must drive up and down these tracks on a daily basis, what is the problem of sticking 3 or 4 bin liners in the boot of the car on refuse day and dropping them off at the end of the road, the very same road that they would be going up anyway?
Hang on a minute, i have to wheel my wheelie bin to the roadside, it takes 2 minutes once a fortnight.Lets put some perspective on this,regardless of the fact it is a private road etc, the people in these houses must drive up and down these tracks on a daily basis, what is the problem of sticking 3 or 4 bin liners in the boot of the car on refuse day and dropping them off at the end of the road, the very same road that they would be going up anyway?
Posted by: scooby and jess, huddersfield on 8:09pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote][bold]andyb2[/bold] wrote:
I suspect the major section of the rural population to be affected will be farmers. They used to take milk churns to the roadside, so this isn`t much difference. Any other people who are off the beaten track and unable to get their bins there could contact social services, surely?[/quote] Yes it's true many farms will be affected by this, but it is not true to suggest the farming community is the majority affected here. There are many properties on private roads that have never been and never will be farms, and lots of these will be elderly residents. I think your having a laugh to think social services would be any help at all. It's the same old story, anything for the council to save a few quid from the minority.
andyb2 wrote:
I suspect the major section of the rural population to be affected will be farmers. They used to take milk churns to the roadside, so this isn`t much difference. Any other people who are off the beaten track and unable to get their bins there could contact social services, surely?
Yes it's true many farms will be affected by this, but it is not true to suggest the farming community is the majority affected here. There are many properties on private roads that have never been and never will be farms, and lots of these will be elderly residents. I think your having a laugh to think social services would be any help at all. It's the same old story, anything for the council to save a few quid from the minority.
Posted by: Bemused on 10:50pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Sounds like incinerator time to me. Burn off the paper, plastic and organic matter, (generating loads of lovely CO2 to speed up global warming and lower my heating bills), then take the heat sterilised remainder to the tip once in a blue moon or bury it.
Problem sorted!
Sounds like incinerator time to me. Burn off the paper, plastic and organic matter, (generating loads of lovely CO2 to speed up global warming and lower my heating bills), then take the heat sterilised remainder to the tip once in a blue moon or bury it.
Problem sorted!
Posted by: petethefeet, York on 12:19am Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Bemused[/bold] wrote:
Sounds like incinerator time to me. Burn off the paper, plastic and organic matter, (generating loads of lovely CO2 to speed up global warming and lower my heating bills), then take the heat sterilised remainder to the tip once in a blue moon or bury it. Problem sorted! [/quote] you've obviously been on stronger stuff then me tonight! Can I have some?
Bemused wrote:
Sounds like incinerator time to me. Burn off the paper, plastic and organic matter, (generating loads of lovely CO2 to speed up global warming and lower my heating bills), then take the heat sterilised remainder to the tip once in a blue moon or bury it. Problem sorted!
you've obviously been on stronger stuff then me tonight! Can I have some?
Posted by: Bemused on 11:36am Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote]you've obviously been on stronger stuff then me tonight! Can I have some?[/quote]
Stone cold sober, and I'll be doing it as soon as they start charging for bin emptying by weight.
you've obviously been on stronger stuff then me tonight! Can I have some?
Stone cold sober, and I'll be doing it as soon as they start charging for bin emptying by weight.
Posted by: Baxy, Copmanthorpe on 3:09pm Wed 26 Mar 08
I am one of the 'remote rural' council tax payers. Our current bin man is brill but to take my bin to the roadside would involve dragging the bin almost a mile. We could always take bin bags to the roadside as suggested but think of the mess to be cleared up if these bags are ripped open by the wild animals we have in the countryside.
Why dont the council send a smaller waggon out that can better deal with the narrower roads instead of sending what must be one of the biggest in the fleet. We seem to get little enough from our taxes (not even recycling collections) without stopping this vital service
I am one of the 'remote rural' council tax payers. Our current bin man is brill but to take my bin to the roadside would involve dragging the bin almost a mile. We could always take bin bags to the roadside as suggested but think of the mess to be cleared up if these bags are ripped open by the wild animals we have in the countryside.
Why dont the council send a smaller waggon out that can better deal with the narrower roads instead of sending what must be one of the biggest in the fleet. We seem to get little enough from our taxes (not even recycling collections) without stopping this vital service
Posted by: scooby and jess, huddersfield on 7:38pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Bemused[/bold] wrote:
[quote]you've obviously been on stronger stuff then me tonight! Can I have some?[/quote] Stone cold sober, and I'll be doing it as soon as they start charging for bin emptying by weight. [/quote] That's right, burn it on the rayburn just like most people will. Believe me you'll only have a couple of bin bags a fortnight then, and it helps to keep the fire lit.
Bemused wrote:
you've obviously been on stronger stuff then me tonight! Can I have some?
Stone cold sober, and I'll be doing it as soon as they start charging for bin emptying by weight.
That's right, burn it on the rayburn just like most people will. Believe me you'll only have a couple of bin bags a fortnight then, and it helps to keep the fire lit.
Posted by: York Urbanite, York City on 9:40pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Forcing residents into leaving their refuse in a position they cannot possibly practically supervise, at the mercy of high winds and refuse operatives too concerned with finishing their shift early to be diligent is ill-judged and irresponsible. Refuse and/or refuse bins could all too easily end up in the path of oncoming cars traveling up to 60 miles an hour, where the last thing they can anticipate is a wheelie bin in their path and where life-saving aid will be some time in reaching them. Clearly NOT a health and safety conscious procedure for collecting refuse being entirely inappropriate to the situation and I recommend writing to the Health & Safety executive to draw their attention to the fact that lives are being put at risk.
Forcing residents into leaving their refuse in a position they cannot possibly practically supervise, at the mercy of high winds and refuse operatives too concerned with finishing their shift early to be diligent is ill-judged and irresponsible. Refuse and/or refuse bins could all too easily end up in the path of oncoming cars traveling up to 60 miles an hour, where the last thing they can anticipate is a wheelie bin in their path and where life-saving aid will be some time in reaching them. Clearly NOT a health and safety conscious procedure for collecting refuse being entirely inappropriate to the situation and I recommend writing to the Health & Safety executive to draw their attention to the fact that lives are being put at risk.
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