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Cyclists push for right to ride through footstreets
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| Paul Hepworth, who wants York's pedestrianised streets to be opened up to cyclists |
A CYCLING campaigner called today for cyclists to be allowed to pedal along some of York city centre's pedestrianised streets.
Paul Hepworth, of the North Yorkshire branch of the Cyclists' Touring Club (CTC), said there should be an experimental period of 24/7 cycling along Fossgate and other streets which might be turned into car-free footstreets.
"We would also like options to be examined for 24/7 cycling on selected cross city routes, where this helps avoid significant detours along busier peripheral roads," he said.
"Colliergate comes to mind, as a logical continuation of the route along St Andrewgate.
Mr Hepworth was speaking after The Press revealed on Tuesday that a major review of the city's footstreets was about to start, which would look at extending them to new streets such as Fossgate and Micklegate, but also examine other matters such as operating hours and allowing cyclists to pedal through from west to east, and from east to west.
Coun Ann Reid, City of York Council's executive member for city strategy, said it would be beneficial to cyclists, but pedestrians might be concerned about dangers.
Mr Hepworth said that Cycling England, an offshoot of the Department for Transport which issued advice to local authorities on a range of issues, had claimed that cycling through restricted areas should be the rule rather than the exception.
"Where this is not appropriate, consideration should be given to allowing access to cyclists outside of the busiest pedestrian hours," he said.
"Especially, it suggests that 24/7 cycling is permitted for an experimental period of, for example, six months after motor vehicle bans are introduced, to fully test their advice in affected streets."
He said that when cars were first banned in Deangate some years ago, cyclists were included in the ban but were then allowed to cycle through.
He said: "If the present city centre vehicle restricted zone is extended, the CTC would like to see a full and fair test of the Cycling England advice, by an experimental period of 24/7 cycling, along Fossgate and other affected streets."
He said that in Cambridge, cycling had been reintroduced in 2005 on selected streets after a blanket ban in the city for some years.
"The Government's Transport Research Laboratory carried out extensive research in the UK, and also in mainland European cities where city centre cycle and pedestrian mixes are far more commonplace than in the UK," he said.
"Their 2003 publication, Cycling In Vehicle Restricted Areas, established that cyclists alter their behaviour according to the density of pedestrian traffic by modifying their speed or dismounting.
"Furthermore, the evidence of the case studies contained within the report shows that very few collisions actually occur between cyclists and pedestrians."
11:42am Thursday 8th May 2008
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CommentPosted by: SilverSurfer, Surfing on 11:58am Thu 8 May 08
[quote]Colliergate comes to mind, as a logical continuation of the route along St Andrewgate[/quote] Is Colliergate ACTUALLY a pedestrianised street?? Judging by the number of disabled vehicles that use it I'd say not!
Colliergate comes to mind, as a logical continuation of the route along St Andrewgate
Is Colliergate ACTUALLY a pedestrianised street?? Judging by the number of disabled vehicles that use it I'd say not!
Posted by: SilverSurfer, Surfing on 11:59am Thu 8 May 08
Perhaps I should have said disabled drivers NOT vehicles.
Perhaps I should have said disabled drivers NOT vehicles.
Posted by: tonesview, york on 12:01pm Thu 8 May 08
Chavs are gonna love that. Racing past all the shoppers , nicking their bags and dissapearing off into snickets. Mind you ,.not a massive change then.
Chavs are gonna love that. Racing past all the shoppers , nicking their bags and dissapearing off into snickets. Mind you ,.not a massive change then.
Posted by: Brian, york on 12:07pm Thu 8 May 08
The result would be a spate of accidents involving cyclists and pedestrians, as pedestrians would not here the cyclists aproaching.
The result would be a spate of accidents involving cyclists and pedestrians, as pedestrians would not here the cyclists aproaching.
Posted by: The Crack Fox, Coming at you, like a razor on 12:13pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Brian[/bold] wrote:
The result would be a spate of accidents involving cyclists and pedestrians, as pedestrians would not here the cyclists aproaching. [/quote] They'd hear me, Iv got a bell!!!
Brian wrote:
The result would be a spate of accidents involving cyclists and pedestrians, as pedestrians would not here the cyclists aproaching.
They'd hear me, Iv got a bell!!!
Posted by: Redr, york on 12:14pm Thu 8 May 08
I cycle nearly every day and nothing annoys me more than other cyclists ignoring red lights, failing to signal and riding on pavements. When you reach the pedestrianised zone get off your bike lock it up and walk, it’s not that difficult. Stop giving all cyclists a bad name and please Mr. Hepworth don’t assume you speak for us all.
I cycle nearly every day and nothing annoys me more than other cyclists ignoring red lights, failing to signal and riding on pavements. When you reach the pedestrianised zone get off your bike lock it up and walk, it’s not that difficult. Stop giving all cyclists a bad name and please Mr. Hepworth don’t assume you speak for us all.
Posted by: Milton, York on 12:16pm Thu 8 May 08
It seems to work just fine in other European cities such as Strasburg so why not? Currently cyclists are unnecessarily risking life and limb driving around the city when they could safely go straight through, and as its hard to cycle fast in the city centre any occasional bumps would be extremely minor ones.
It seems to work just fine in other European cities such as Strasburg so why not? Currently cyclists are unnecessarily risking life and limb driving around the city when they could safely go straight through, and as its hard to cycle fast in the city centre any occasional bumps would be extremely minor ones.
Posted by: Paul Hepworth, York on 12:21pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Redr[/bold] wrote:
I cycle nearly every day and nothing annoys me more than other cyclists ignoring red lights, failing to signal and riding on pavements. When you reach the pedestrianised zone get off your bike lock it up and walk, it’s not that difficult. Stop giving all cyclists a bad name and please Mr. Hepworth don’t assume you speak for us all.[/quote] ...feel free to participate in the public consultation Redr. We are in a democracy. Please bear in mind that if a door to desk journey time by bike is faster than by car, then we may encourage more motorists to voluntarily switch to pedal power.
Redr wrote:
I cycle nearly every day and nothing annoys me more than other cyclists ignoring red lights, failing to signal and riding on pavements. When you reach the pedestrianised zone get off your bike lock it up and walk, it’s not that difficult. Stop giving all cyclists a bad name and please Mr. Hepworth don’t assume you speak for us all.
...feel free to participate in the public consultation Redr. We are in a democracy. Please bear in mind that if a door to desk journey time by bike is faster than by car, then we may encourage more motorists to voluntarily switch to pedal power.
Posted by: Mike C, york on 12:22pm Thu 8 May 08
The current law just isn't enforced - the council have not taken up the powers available under a 2003 act, and the police visibly aren't interested. People currently obeying the law aren't the ones to worry about cycling through, while those currently flouting it are all too often inconsiderate or dangerous.
So, much as I'd like to be able to cycle the footstreets, the answer has to be not until CYC has taken up its delegated powers and the police start getting tough (not a one-day "crackdown").
The current law just isn't enforced - the council have not taken up the powers available under a 2003 act, and the police visibly aren't interested. People currently obeying the law aren't the ones to worry about cycling through, while those currently flouting it are all too often inconsiderate or dangerous.
So, much as I'd like to be able to cycle the footstreets, the answer has to be not until CYC has taken up its delegated powers and the police start getting tough (not a one-day "crackdown").
Posted by: Hawker, Home on 12:24pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote]"Furthermore, the evidence of the case studies contained within the report shows that very few collisions actually occur between cyclists and pedestrians."[/quote] Which shows the very reason why it should not be allowed. Why not just get off and walk like everyone else does in a pedestrian area?
"Furthermore, the evidence of the case studies contained within the report shows that very few collisions actually occur between cyclists and pedestrians."
Which shows the very reason why it should not be allowed. Why not just get off and walk like everyone else does in a pedestrian area?
Posted by: Mister Sheen, Right round the house on 12:26pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Redr[/bold] wrote:
I cycle nearly every day and nothing annoys me more than other cyclists ignoring red lights, failing to signal and riding on pavements. When you reach the pedestrianised zone get off your bike lock it up and walk, it’s not that difficult. Stop giving all cyclists a bad name and please Mr. Hepworth don’t assume you speak for us all.[/quote] Yeah, sorry Paul, I agree with the above. I don't want to run the risk of cycling through a lart part of the city centre in case I hit someone when it was their fault and the hit with a claim for compy. It's not too hard riding around the periphery and then leaving the bike and walking inwards.
Agree though that one or two key roads could be left open.
Redr wrote:
I cycle nearly every day and nothing annoys me more than other cyclists ignoring red lights, failing to signal and riding on pavements. When you reach the pedestrianised zone get off your bike lock it up and walk, it’s not that difficult. Stop giving all cyclists a bad name and please Mr. Hepworth don’t assume you speak for us all.
Yeah, sorry Paul, I agree with the above. I don't want to run the risk of cycling through a lart part of the city centre in case I hit someone when it was their fault and the hit with a claim for compy. It's not too hard riding around the periphery and then leaving the bike and walking inwards.
Agree though that one or two key roads could be left open.
Posted by: The Crack Fox, Coming at you, like a razor on 12:35pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Redr[/bold] wrote:
I cycle nearly every day and nothing annoys me more than other cyclists ignoring red lights, failing to signal and riding on pavements. When you reach the pedestrianised zone get off your bike lock it up and walk, it’s not that difficult. Stop giving all cyclists a bad name and please Mr. Hepworth don’t assume you speak for us all.[/quote] Come on, thats one of the main reasons I cycle, if you do the same route every day you know the light an when its okay to jump them, also lots of street have lights which are red but its perfectly safe for a bike to go round the corner just not a car, seperate cycle lanes would be handy for this reason
Redr wrote:
I cycle nearly every day and nothing annoys me more than other cyclists ignoring red lights, failing to signal and riding on pavements. When you reach the pedestrianised zone get off your bike lock it up and walk, it’s not that difficult. Stop giving all cyclists a bad name and please Mr. Hepworth don’t assume you speak for us all.
Come on, thats one of the main reasons I cycle, if you do the same route every day you know the light an when its okay to jump them, also lots of street have lights which are red but its perfectly safe for a bike to go round the corner just not a car, seperate cycle lanes would be handy for this reason
Posted by: Jackanory, York on 12:36pm Thu 8 May 08
Although I agree with what Paul Hepworth is trying to do, I don't agree that he personally should be the spokeman for cyclists, because if you happen to come across Mr Hepworth and you have done something slightly wrong like going on to a deserted pavement to get passed a truck he takes great pleasure in telling you that he is the representative of whatever, and then moaning at you, when in my eyes for safety reasons you have done nothing wrong. Basically Mr Hepworth is tee wat.
Although I agree with what Paul Hepworth is trying to do, I don't agree that he personally should be the spokeman for cyclists, because if you happen to come across Mr Hepworth and you have done something slightly wrong like going on to a deserted pavement to get passed a truck he takes great pleasure in telling you that he is the representative of whatever, and then moaning at you, when in my eyes for safety reasons you have done nothing wrong. Basically Mr Hepworth is tee wat.
Posted by: A on 12:39pm Thu 8 May 08
Whilst I'm all for more cycle paths and better provisions for cyclists it takes about 10 mins to walk through the pedestrianised zone of york pushing a bike and this idea has accident written all over it. Cycling slowly might mean that any healthy adult that gets hit would only suffer a "minor bump" but it could be much worse for older/younger people. Also If they are going to cycle so slowly why not walk?
Whilst I'm all for more cycle paths and better provisions for cyclists it takes about 10 mins to walk through the pedestrianised zone of york pushing a bike and this idea has accident written all over it. Cycling slowly might mean that any healthy adult that gets hit would only suffer a "minor bump" but it could be much worse for older/younger people. Also If they are going to cycle so slowly why not walk?
Posted by: Peachy4, york on 12:40pm Thu 8 May 08
Its bad enough with the disabled buggies in town without bikes as well,and yes i am a bike rider but i use the road!!!!!
Its bad enough with the disabled buggies in town without bikes as well,and yes i am a bike rider but i use the road!!!!!
Posted by: Chumpy69, York on 12:54pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote]A CYCLING campaigner called today for cyclists to be allowed to pedal along some of York city centre's pedestrianised streets.[/quote] Pedestrianised Area's are there for a reason... why change it now
A CYCLING campaigner called today for cyclists to be allowed to pedal along some of York city centre's pedestrianised streets.
Pedestrianised Area's are there for a reason... why change it now
Posted by: bjc, York on 12:55pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Paul Hepworth[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Redr[/bold] wrote: I cycle nearly every day and nothing annoys me more than other cyclists ignoring red lights, failing to signal and riding on pavements. When you reach the pedestrianised zone get off your bike lock it up and walk, it’s not that difficult. Stop giving all cyclists a bad name and please Mr. Hepworth don’t assume you speak for us all.[/quote] ...feel free to participate in the public consultation Redr. We are in a democracy. Please bear in mind that if a door to desk journey time by bike is faster than by car, then we may encourage more motorists to voluntarily switch to pedal power. [/quote] [quote]Mr Hepworth said that Cycling England, an offshoot of the Department for Transport which issued advice to local authorities on a range of issues, had claimed that cycling through restricted areas should be the rule rather than the exception.[/quote]
Just as when Foot and Mouth was last present in this county?
A large group of organised cyclists ignored my pleas not to go through the gate ( with warning signs and tape) of the Cycle Track in my village. There are farms and livestock bordering this route but this selfish bunch just pedalled on ignoring the very real risk of spreading that revolting disease.
I agree totally with Redr.
Pedestrianised zones enable people to move around safely, particularly in busy areas, why should a cyclist be allowed to hurtle through?!
Mr Hepworth, your missionary zeal in the name of cycling belies the fact that you think the rules shouldn't apply to you... Well tough.
Paul Hepworth wrote:
Redr wrote: I cycle nearly every day and nothing annoys me more than other cyclists ignoring red lights, failing to signal and riding on pavements. When you reach the pedestrianised zone get off your bike lock it up and walk, it’s not that difficult. Stop giving all cyclists a bad name and please Mr. Hepworth don’t assume you speak for us all.
...feel free to participate in the public consultation Redr. We are in a democracy. Please bear in mind that if a door to desk journey time by bike is faster than by car, then we may encourage more motorists to voluntarily switch to pedal power.
Mr Hepworth said that Cycling England, an offshoot of the Department for Transport which issued advice to local authorities on a range of issues, had claimed that cycling through restricted areas should be the rule rather than the exception.
Just as when Foot and Mouth was last present in this county?
A large group of organised cyclists ignored my pleas not to go through the gate ( with warning signs and tape) of the Cycle Track in my village. There are farms and livestock bordering this route but this selfish bunch just pedalled on ignoring the very real risk of spreading that revolting disease.
I agree totally with Redr.
Pedestrianised zones enable people to move around safely, particularly in busy areas, why should a cyclist be allowed to hurtle through?!
Mr Hepworth, your missionary zeal in the name of cycling belies the fact that you think the rules shouldn't apply to you... Well tough.
Posted by: Jason on 1:15pm Thu 8 May 08
CTC needs to shed its image of beardy weirdies before they represent me as a cyclist.
CTC needs to shed its image of beardy weirdies before they represent me as a cyclist.
Posted by: The Crack Fox, Coming at you, like a razor on 1:25pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Jason[/bold] wrote:
CTC needs to shed its image of beardy weirdies before they represent me as a cyclist.[/quote] They'd prob get more support if they had a different spokesperson, I'l put myself forward!!
Jason wrote:
CTC needs to shed its image of beardy weirdies before they represent me as a cyclist.
They'd prob get more support if they had a different spokesperson, I'l put myself forward!!
Posted by: jim, york on 1:32pm Thu 8 May 08
This has got to be one of the most stupid ideas that I have ever heard of and it surprises me that the CTC would support it. It is risky enough to cycle past a pedestrian when travelling on routes around areas such as Clifton Moor which are nothing like a busy as the city centre and have a white line segregating the cycle and footways to boot.
Cycling is the most efficent form of transport, so what's the problem with having to travel a few hundred yards further? If it's a question of safety, what happens when you get to the end of a footstreet and mix with the traffic again?
Even if a door to desk journey time by bike is faster than by car few motorists would switch - speed isn't the only consideration.
This has got to be one of the most stupid ideas that I have ever heard of and it surprises me that the CTC would support it. It is risky enough to cycle past a pedestrian when travelling on routes around areas such as Clifton Moor which are nothing like a busy as the city centre and have a white line segregating the cycle and footways to boot.
Cycling is the most efficent form of transport, so what's the problem with having to travel a few hundred yards further? If it's a question of safety, what happens when you get to the end of a footstreet and mix with the traffic again?
Even if a door to desk journey time by bike is faster than by car few motorists would switch - speed isn't the only consideration.
Posted by: Mike C, york on 1:35pm Thu 8 May 08
The Crack Fox: please tell me that was toungue in cheek. Otherwise, don't you see the constant trickle of complaints about lawless cyclists? This then backfires on me when drivers treat cyclists with careless contempt. Do you see the connection?
The Crack Fox: please tell me that was toungue in cheek. Otherwise, don't you see the constant trickle of complaints about lawless cyclists? This then backfires on me when drivers treat cyclists with careless contempt. Do you see the connection?
Posted by: The Crack Fox, Coming at you, like a razor on 1:46pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Mike C[/bold] wrote:
The Crack Fox: please tell me that was toungue in cheek. Otherwise, don't you see the constant trickle of complaints about lawless cyclists? This then backfires on me when drivers treat cyclists with careless contempt. Do you see the connection?[/quote] Lol, I dont know what you mean!!!
Mike C wrote:
The Crack Fox: please tell me that was toungue in cheek. Otherwise, don't you see the constant trickle of complaints about lawless cyclists? This then backfires on me when drivers treat cyclists with careless contempt. Do you see the connection?
Lol, I dont know what you mean!!!
Posted by: X, At Work on 1:57pm Thu 8 May 08
I would like to start a push to allow cars to travel through the streets of York 24/7.
I don't think i will be listened to though.
I would like to start a push to allow cars to travel through the streets of York 24/7.
I don't think i will be listened to though.
Posted by: avidreader, York on 2:07pm Thu 8 May 08
I always imagined Paul Hepworth to look like a serious cyclist, complete with proper gear with the latest racer bike - how funny that he looks more like a middle aged anorak with a woman's cycle. Just shows how wrong you can be sometimes!!
I always imagined Paul Hepworth to look like a serious cyclist, complete with proper gear with the latest racer bike - how funny that he looks more like a middle aged anorak with a woman's cycle. Just shows how wrong you can be sometimes!!
Posted by: Mac, York on 2:19pm Thu 8 May 08
So now we have in black & white what we always suspected. The rule of the road is for anyone but cyclists.
So now we have in black & white what we always suspected. The rule of the road is for anyone but cyclists.
Posted by: Paul Hepworth, York on 2:19pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]avidreader[/bold] wrote:
I always imagined Paul Hepworth to look like a serious cyclist, complete with proper gear with the latest racer bike - how funny that he looks more like a middle aged anorak with a woman's cycle. Just shows how wrong you can be sometimes!![/quote] Depends on whether I'm riding to work, or for leisure.
Visit http://www.cyclingen
gland.co.uk/document
s/A.07.pdf to read the formal advice give to Local Authorities on shared cyclist/pedestrian space.
avidreader wrote:
I always imagined Paul Hepworth to look like a serious cyclist, complete with proper gear with the latest racer bike - how funny that he looks more like a middle aged anorak with a woman's cycle. Just shows how wrong you can be sometimes!!
Depends on whether I'm riding to work, or for leisure.
Visit http://www.cyclingen
gland.co.uk/document
s/A.07.pdf to read the formal advice give to Local Authorities on shared cyclist/pedestrian space.
Posted by: Keith, York on 2:24pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]The Crack Fox[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Brian[/bold] wrote: The result would be a spate of accidents involving cyclists and pedestrians, as pedestrians would not here the cyclists aproaching. [/quote] They'd hear me, Iv got a bell!!![/quote] You are a bell...
The Crack Fox wrote:
Brian wrote: The result would be a spate of accidents involving cyclists and pedestrians, as pedestrians would not here the cyclists aproaching.
They'd hear me, Iv got a bell!!!
You are a bell...
Posted by: avidreader, York on 2:26pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Paul Hepworth[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]avidreader[/bold] wrote: I always imagined Paul Hepworth to look like a serious cyclist, complete with proper gear with the latest racer bike - how funny that he looks more like a middle aged anorak with a woman's cycle. Just shows how wrong you can be sometimes!![/quote] Depends on whether I'm riding to work, or for leisure. Visit http://www.cyclingen gland.co.uk/document s/A.07.pdf to read the formal advice give to Local Authorities on shared cyclist/pedestrian space. [/quote] I've seen enough already thanks without visiting boring cycling websites...
Paul Hepworth wrote:
avidreader wrote: I always imagined Paul Hepworth to look like a serious cyclist, complete with proper gear with the latest racer bike - how funny that he looks more like a middle aged anorak with a woman's cycle. Just shows how wrong you can be sometimes!!
Depends on whether I'm riding to work, or for leisure. Visit http://www.cyclingen gland.co.uk/document s/A.07.pdf to read the formal advice give to Local Authorities on shared cyclist/pedestrian space.
I've seen enough already thanks without visiting boring cycling websites...
Posted by: Guy Fawkes, Bootham on 2:27pm Thu 8 May 08
Mr. Hepworth should take a visit to any major town or city in The Netherlands, which I would guess probably has the most widespread bicycle use of any country in the world (probably because the place is completely flat, and therefore ideal for bikes). There he will see that the pavements are generally divided into separate cycle and pedestrian lanes, and that everyone stays in the right lane or suffers the consequences.
The Dutch should know a thing or two about bicycle use, and have arrived at the conclusion that bikes and pedestrians sharing the same strip of tarmac is too dangerous to allow. So if Mr. Hepworth's idea has been proven not to work in Amsterdam or Utrecht or Roosendaal, could he explain why it would do in York?
Mr. Hepworth should take a visit to any major town or city in The Netherlands, which I would guess probably has the most widespread bicycle use of any country in the world (probably because the place is completely flat, and therefore ideal for bikes). There he will see that the pavements are generally divided into separate cycle and pedestrian lanes, and that everyone stays in the right lane or suffers the consequences.
The Dutch should know a thing or two about bicycle use, and have arrived at the conclusion that bikes and pedestrians sharing the same strip of tarmac is too dangerous to allow. So if Mr. Hepworth's idea has been proven not to work in Amsterdam or Utrecht or Roosendaal, could he explain why it would do in York?
Posted by: Lamplighter on 2:47pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Mister Sheen[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Redr[/bold] wrote: I cycle nearly every day and nothing annoys me more than other cyclists ignoring red lights, failing to signal and riding on pavements. When you reach the pedestrianised zone get off your bike lock it up and walk, it’s not that difficult. Stop giving all cyclists a bad name and please Mr. Hepworth don’t assume you speak for us all.[/quote] Yeah, sorry Paul, I agree with the above. I don't want to run the risk of cycling through a lart part of the city centre in case I hit someone when it was their fault and the hit with a claim for compy. It's not too hard riding around the periphery and then leaving the bike and walking inwards. Agree though that one or two key roads could be left open.[/quote] Well surely there would be a cycle lane clearly marked out?
Mister Sheen wrote:
Redr wrote: I cycle nearly every day and nothing annoys me more than other cyclists ignoring red lights, failing to signal and riding on pavements. When you reach the pedestrianised zone get off your bike lock it up and walk, it’s not that difficult. Stop giving all cyclists a bad name and please Mr. Hepworth don’t assume you speak for us all.
Yeah, sorry Paul, I agree with the above. I don't want to run the risk of cycling through a lart part of the city centre in case I hit someone when it was their fault and the hit with a claim for compy. It's not too hard riding around the periphery and then leaving the bike and walking inwards. Agree though that one or two key roads could be left open.
Well surely there would be a cycle lane clearly marked out?
Posted by: Lamplighter on 2:49pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Mike C[/bold] wrote:
The Crack Fox: please tell me that was toungue in cheek. Otherwise, don't you see the constant trickle of complaints about lawless cyclists? This then backfires on me when drivers treat cyclists with careless contempt. Do you see the connection?[/quote] Well said. I get fed up of being lumped in with irresponsible cyclists.
Mike C wrote:
The Crack Fox: please tell me that was toungue in cheek. Otherwise, don't you see the constant trickle of complaints about lawless cyclists? This then backfires on me when drivers treat cyclists with careless contempt. Do you see the connection?
Well said. I get fed up of being lumped in with irresponsible cyclists.
Posted by: petethefeet, York on 2:54pm Thu 8 May 08
Whilst I spend a lot of time on here promoting cycling, I'm afraid I cannot support cycling on foot-streets. joe public should be free to wander these aimlessly without having to constantly look over their shoulder or fear of collision injury (BTW. This should include disabled vehicles as well).
Having said that, crossing town on the available routes is extremely dangerous on a cycle. So the poor old cyclist is caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. So let's restrict the use of the vehicles instead of threatening the poor old pedestrians!
Whilst I spend a lot of time on here promoting cycling, I'm afraid I cannot support cycling on foot-streets. joe public should be free to wander these aimlessly without having to constantly look over their shoulder or fear of collision injury (BTW. This should include disabled vehicles as well).
Having said that, crossing town on the available routes is extremely dangerous on a cycle. So the poor old cyclist is caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. So let's restrict the use of the vehicles instead of threatening the poor old pedestrians!
Posted by: hustler, York on 3:17pm Thu 8 May 08
Get a compulsary cycle training course complete with a test after completion and a mandatory yearly check on the legality of cycles, akin to a car MOT, then I might be inclined to listen to such a scheme. I have nothing against cyclists in general, but having recently been hit by a cyclist without operating brakes at the East Parade traffic lights whilst crossing the road at the time of the green man, makes me worry about the thought of some (not all) cyclists hairing along through the foot streets without regard to the safety of others.
Get a compulsary cycle training course complete with a test after completion and a mandatory yearly check on the legality of cycles, akin to a car MOT, then I might be inclined to listen to such a scheme. I have nothing against cyclists in general, but having recently been hit by a cyclist without operating brakes at the East Parade traffic lights whilst crossing the road at the time of the green man, makes me worry about the thought of some (not all) cyclists hairing along through the foot streets without regard to the safety of others.
Posted by: petethefeet, York on 3:20pm Thu 8 May 08
Got to admit, I did wonder what Paul is carrying on the front of his bike? Paul, are you that this isn't some form of motorised contraption as it looks like you're carrying a jerry can on the front :-))
Got to admit, I did wonder what Paul is carrying on the front of his bike? Paul, are you that this isn't some form of motorised contraption as it looks like you're carrying a jerry can on the front :-))
Posted by: Paul Hepworth, York on 3:53pm Thu 8 May 08
The Cycling England advice and Dept. for transport guidelines do cater for segregation by painted markings, chamfered kerbs or like delineation where local circumstances dictate. Equally some shared space schemes operate well without formal segregation.
The Cycling England advice and Dept. for transport guidelines do cater for segregation by painted markings, chamfered kerbs or like delineation where local circumstances dictate. Equally some shared space schemes operate well without formal segregation.
Posted by: A user, Selby on 4:12pm Thu 8 May 08
Yeah right. What makes you think cyclists will obey a cycle lane when they can't keep off pavements as it is?
Yeah right. What makes you think cyclists will obey a cycle lane when they can't keep off pavements as it is?
Posted by: Barbara, York on 4:25pm Thu 8 May 08
I have to agree with the majority of comments here. I know all cyclists are not guilty, but I get around town mainly on foot and am sick of negotiating cyclists on the footpaths and cyclists going through red lights where pedestrians are trying to cross. This is particularly a problem at the crossing on the corner at Clifford street/Ousegate. I also saw a cyclist going up Coney Street last week in the middle of the day, which ran into an elderly gentleman as he was leaving a shop. No to bikes in the City Centre, if you can cycle then you should be able to manage a short walk.
I have to agree with the majority of comments here. I know all cyclists are not guilty, but I get around town mainly on foot and am sick of negotiating cyclists on the footpaths and cyclists going through red lights where pedestrians are trying to cross. This is particularly a problem at the crossing on the corner at Clifford street/Ousegate. I also saw a cyclist going up Coney Street last week in the middle of the day, which ran into an elderly gentleman as he was leaving a shop. No to bikes in the City Centre, if you can cycle then you should be able to manage a short walk.
Posted by: The Crack Fox, Coming at you, like a razor on 4:29pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Keith[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]The Crack Fox[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Brian[/bold] wrote: The result would be a spate of accidents involving cyclists and pedestrians, as pedestrians would not here the cyclists aproaching. [/quote] They'd hear me, Iv got a bell!!![/quote] You are a bell...[/quote] ha ha ha ha ha, one of the funniest comments about myself Iv ever read, thanks Keith!!
Keith wrote:
The Crack Fox wrote: Brian wrote: The result would be a spate of accidents involving cyclists and pedestrians, as pedestrians would not here the cyclists aproaching.
They'd hear me, Iv got a bell!!!
You are a bell...
ha ha ha ha ha, one of the funniest comments about myself Iv ever read, thanks Keith!!
Posted by: Keith, York on 4:42pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]The Crack Fox[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Keith[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]The Crack Fox[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Brian[/bold] wrote: The result would be a spate of accidents involving cyclists and pedestrians, as pedestrians would not here the cyclists aproaching. [/quote] They'd hear me, Iv got a bell!!![/quote] You are a bell...[/quote] ha ha ha ha ha, one of the funniest comments about myself Iv ever read, thanks Keith!![/quote] Ha, I aim to please...!
The Crack Fox wrote:
Keith wrote: The Crack Fox wrote: Brian wrote: The result would be a spate of accidents involving cyclists and pedestrians, as pedestrians would not here the cyclists aproaching.
They'd hear me, Iv got a bell!!!
You are a bell...
ha ha ha ha ha, one of the funniest comments about myself Iv ever read, thanks Keith!!
Ha, I aim to please...!
Posted by: Peter, york on 6:14pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Redr[/bold] wrote:
I cycle nearly every day and nothing annoys me more than other cyclists ignoring red lights, failing to signal and riding on pavements. When you reach the pedestrianised zone get off your bike lock it up and walk, it’s not that difficult. Stop giving all cyclists a bad name and please Mr. Hepworth don’t assume you speak for us all.[/quote] I'm a cyclist and I agree with your comment, the other thing that really annoys me is jaywalkers that step out without looking, cross the road in stupid places right next to pedestrian crossings, and take no notice of signals etc at crossings.
With brain dead pedestrians, allowing cycling on pedestrian streets is a recipey for disaster.
Redr wrote:
I cycle nearly every day and nothing annoys me more than other cyclists ignoring red lights, failing to signal and riding on pavements. When you reach the pedestrianised zone get off your bike lock it up and walk, it’s not that difficult. Stop giving all cyclists a bad name and please Mr. Hepworth don’t assume you speak for us all.
I'm a cyclist and I agree with your comment, the other thing that really annoys me is jaywalkers that step out without looking, cross the road in stupid places right next to pedestrian crossings, and take no notice of signals etc at crossings.
With brain dead pedestrians, allowing cycling on pedestrian streets is a recipey for disaster.
Posted by: Gromit, South Bank on 6:21pm Thu 8 May 08
I cycle everyday to work, I don't cycle on the pavement, I stop at red lights and I signal when I'm turning. I don't ride on the pavement, however I can understand why some people do. So far this year, I have had several people in cars try to fore me off the road. I have also had pedestrians look both ways before crossing the road, see me then still walk across the road in front of me. Not to mention the car drivers who park or drive in the cycle lanes. To a car driver a cyclists life is worth nothing.
I cycle everyday to work, I don't cycle on the pavement, I stop at red lights and I signal when I'm turning. I don't ride on the pavement, however I can understand why some people do. So far this year, I have had several people in cars try to fore me off the road. I have also had pedestrians look both ways before crossing the road, see me then still walk across the road in front of me. Not to mention the car drivers who park or drive in the cycle lanes. To a car driver a cyclists life is worth nothing.
Posted by: Peter, york on 6:29pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote]Not to mention the car drivers who park or drive in the cycle lanes. To a car driver a cyclists life is worth nothing.[/quote]
Agreed most motorists hav'nt a clue about what the highway code says about their responsibility to cyclists, yet they are the first critise cyclists when they break the highway code.
Not to mention the car drivers who park or drive in the cycle lanes. To a car driver a cyclists life is worth nothing.
Agreed most motorists hav'nt a clue about what the highway code says about their responsibility to cyclists, yet they are the first critise cyclists when they break the highway code.
Posted by: redjanet, york on 7:06pm Thu 8 May 08
Three words to say to this
"ON YOUR BIKE"
Three words to say to this
"ON YOUR BIKE"
Posted by: redjanet, york on 7:07pm Thu 8 May 08
"ON YOUR BIKE"
Posted by: larkin, leeds on 9:23pm Thu 8 May 08
Do you bike riders know how to use cycle tracks you are supposed to ride on them the same way vehicles travel? or didnt you know this most of you dont, why is it you think that becouse your on a bike the law is diferent for you!
I WANT TO SEE REGISTRATIONS ON ALL BIKES AS THEY DO IN HOLLAND AND A LICENCE CHARGE OF £80 A YEAR CHARGED PER BIKE ITS ONLY FAIR then as a bike rider you HAVE SOMETHING TO complain ABOUT as it is now you have nothing to complain about until then.
KEEP IT SHUT I am sick and tired reading all the crap you write
MR HEPWORTH!!
Do you bike riders know how to use cycle tracks you are supposed to ride on them the same way vehicles travel? or didnt you know this most of you dont, why is it you think that becouse your on a bike the law is diferent for you!
I WANT TO SEE REGISTRATIONS ON ALL BIKES AS THEY DO IN HOLLAND AND A LICENCE CHARGE OF £80 A YEAR CHARGED PER BIKE ITS ONLY FAIR then as a bike rider you HAVE SOMETHING TO complain ABOUT as it is now you have nothing to complain about until then.
KEEP IT SHUT I am sick and tired reading all the crap you write
MR HEPWORTH!!
Posted by: hustler, York on 10:39pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Peter[/bold] wrote:
[quote]Not to mention the car drivers who park or drive in the cycle lanes. To a car driver a cyclists life is worth nothing.[/quote] Agreed most motorists hav'nt a clue about what the highway code says about their responsibility to cyclists, yet they are the first critise cyclists when they break the highway code.[/quote] Let's get cyclists doing a theory and written test then, and have their machinery pass an MOT. And while we're at it, get them paying insurance as well. All law abiding motorists have to do all of these. To say "most motorists haven't got a clue about their responsibility to cyclists" is in my opinion, a bit rich. On a daily basis, I see numerous cyclists racing through red lights, taking to the footpath at speed, riding in the dark without lights etc etc. I bet they would be the first to criticise an innocent motorist if they were knocked off their cycle, even in circumstances that they were breaking the law.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti cycling. I just think that from my own observations, I witness cyclists breaking the highway code far more frequently around York than car drivers or motorcyclists.
Peter wrote:
Not to mention the car drivers who park or drive in the cycle lanes. To a car driver a cyclists life is worth nothing.
Agreed most motorists hav'nt a clue about what the highway code says about their responsibility to cyclists, yet they are the first critise cyclists when they break the highway code.
Let's get cyclists doing a theory and written test then, and have their machinery pass an MOT. And while we're at it, get them paying insurance as well. All law abiding motorists have to do all of these. To say "most motorists haven't got a clue about their responsibility to cyclists" is in my opinion, a bit rich. On a daily basis, I see numerous cyclists racing through red lights, taking to the footpath at speed, riding in the dark without lights etc etc. I bet they would be the first to criticise an innocent motorist if they were knocked off their cycle, even in circumstances that they were breaking the law.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti cycling. I just think that from my own observations, I witness cyclists breaking the highway code far more frequently around York than car drivers or motorcyclists.
Posted by: Cynic, York on 10:52pm Thu 8 May 08
Have to say that I think it would be very unwise to open up the footstreets to cyclists it just won't work and there will be collisions with pedestrians. If I cycle into the city centre, I lock the bike up somewhere on the edge and walk in. I can't really see why anyone would want to try to weave through the pedestrians everywhere - it's just as quick to walk.
What SHOULD be done is the clamp down on the many chavs who cycle everywhere with impunity, and the cars which shouldn't be in the pedestrian zone. I stood at the top of Colliergate eating a sandwich one day last week, and of the half-a-dozen-plus cars which passed not one had a disabled badge. At least one clearly contained tourists studying their map. Can they not read no-entry signs?
Have to say that I think it would be very unwise to open up the footstreets to cyclists it just won't work and there will be collisions with pedestrians. If I cycle into the city centre, I lock the bike up somewhere on the edge and walk in. I can't really see why anyone would want to try to weave through the pedestrians everywhere - it's just as quick to walk.
What SHOULD be done is the clamp down on the many chavs who cycle everywhere with impunity, and the cars which shouldn't be in the pedestrian zone. I stood at the top of Colliergate eating a sandwich one day last week, and of the half-a-dozen-plus cars which passed not one had a disabled badge. At least one clearly contained tourists studying their map. Can they not read no-entry signs?
Posted by: york_resident, York on 6:09am Fri 9 May 08
This is a recipe for accidents to happen. Typical rubbish from anti-car Mr Hepworth. I very much doubt if he has passed his cycling proficiency test! Sometime back he rode behind me when I was quite clearly parking up in a street. Also last winter I noticed him twice riding up and down a road in Holgate with no lights on in the dark! A very good model cyclist - not!
This is a recipe for accidents to happen. Typical rubbish from anti-car Mr Hepworth. I very much doubt if he has passed his cycling proficiency test! Sometime back he rode behind me when I was quite clearly parking up in a street. Also last winter I noticed him twice riding up and down a road in Holgate with no lights on in the dark! A very good model cyclist - not!
Posted by: Gromit, South Bank on 6:59am Fri 9 May 08
Ah, the old, old 'you don't pay road tax' comment. Here's a random thought on that one (some figures quoted are open to question, but you get the idea):
1. There are approximately 33 million licensed vehicles in UK (source Office of National Statistics). Also 43% of people aged over 5 own a bicycle (source Department of Transport). (Roughly) that's around 20 million bicycles.
2. Vehicle Excise Duty for zero emission vehicles is currently £0. So a bicycle will cost £0.
3. Guestimating, it costs around £10 in admin/overhead costs for the DfT to issue a disk, even one that's not being charged for (that's even with modern computer systems). That's got to be paid for from somewhere. So the costs for issuing the disks for bicycles will have to be recouped by increasing the cost to other licensed vehicles. That'll put the cost up by about £6 each.
So, Mr Car Driver (which includes me) - if you want me to 'pay road tax' on my bicycle - it's going to cost you £6 a year for each of your vehicles to pay for it.
Do you still want me to have one? No, thought not.
I also drive an electric vehical around town picking up recycling, we don't have to pay road tax eather. As usual we get people overtaking without a care for their safety or anyone elses!
Ah, the old, old 'you don't pay road tax' comment. Here's a random thought on that one (some figures quoted are open to question, but you get the idea):
1. There are approximately 33 million licensed vehicles in UK (source Office of National Statistics). Also 43% of people aged over 5 own a bicycle (source Department of Transport). (Roughly) that's around 20 million bicycles.
2. Vehicle Excise Duty for zero emission vehicles is currently £0. So a bicycle will cost £0.
3. Guestimating, it costs around £10 in admin/overhead costs for the DfT to issue a disk, even one that's not being charged for (that's even with modern computer systems). That's got to be paid for from somewhere. So the costs for issuing the disks for bicycles will have to be recouped by increasing the cost to other licensed vehicles. That'll put the cost up by about £6 each.
So, Mr Car Driver (which includes me) - if you want me to 'pay road tax' on my bicycle - it's going to cost you £6 a year for each of your vehicles to pay for it.
Do you still want me to have one? No, thought not.
I also drive an electric vehical around town picking up recycling, we don't have to pay road tax eather. As usual we get people overtaking without a care for their safety or anyone elses!
Posted by: biggles, York on 9:58am Fri 9 May 08
What is the point of making more rules for cyclists when they do not obey the ones we have got.
I wonder how Paul Hepworth will get around when and if his legs pack up.
What is the point of making more rules for cyclists when they do not obey the ones we have got.
I wonder how Paul Hepworth will get around when and if his legs pack up.
Posted by: Brian, york on 11:13am Fri 9 May 08
We already have to dodge beggars /street sellers/leaflet distributers now you want to add cyclists,by the way does Ann Reid know that outside pedestrian hours the streets are full of vans/trucks delivering.
We already have to dodge beggars /street sellers/leaflet distributers now you want to add cyclists,by the way does Ann Reid know that outside pedestrian hours the streets are full of vans/trucks delivering.
Posted by: larkin, leeds on 11:29am Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Gromit[/bold] wrote:
Ah, the old, old 'you don't pay road tax' comment. Here's a random thought on that one (some figures quoted are open to question, but you get the idea): 1. There are approximately 33 million licensed vehicles in UK (source Office of National Statistics). Also 43% of people aged over 5 own a bicycle (source Department of Transport). (Roughly) that's around 20 million bicycles. 2. Vehicle Excise Duty for zero emission vehicles is currently £0. So a bicycle will cost £0. 3. Guestimating, it costs around £10 in admin/overhead costs for the DfT to issue a disk, even one that's not being charged for (that's even with modern computer systems). That's got to be paid for from somewhere. So the costs for issuing the disks for bicycles will have to be recouped by increasing the cost to other licensed vehicles. That'll put the cost up by about £6 each. So, Mr Car Driver (which includes me) - if you want me to 'pay road tax' on my bicycle - it's going to cost you £6 a year for each of your vehicles to pay for it. Do you still want me to have one? No, thought not. I also drive an electric vehical around town picking up recycling, we don't have to pay road tax eather. As usual we get people overtaking without a care for their safety or anyone elses![/quote] Yes LICENCE BIKES £80 A YEAR THAT SHOULD COVER COSTS!
Why the heck should cyclists get away FREE when thousands are spent on tracks for them MAKE IT £100 A YEAR lets see them squirm come on lets all be equal why should a bike get a free use of our roads and some roads have been reduced to accomadate two wheels!
Gromit wrote:
Ah, the old, old 'you don't pay road tax' comment. Here's a random thought on that one (some figures quoted are open to question, but you get the idea): 1. There are approximately 33 million licensed vehicles in UK (source Office of National Statistics). Also 43% of people aged over 5 own a bicycle (source Department of Transport). (Roughly) that's around 20 million bicycles. 2. Vehicle Excise Duty for zero emission vehicles is currently £0. So a bicycle will cost £0. 3. Guestimating, it costs around £10 in admin/overhead costs for the DfT to issue a disk, even one that's not being charged for (that's even with modern computer systems). That's got to be paid for from somewhere. So the costs for issuing the disks for bicycles will have to be recouped by increasing the cost to other licensed vehicles. That'll put the cost up by about £6 each. So, Mr Car Driver (which includes me) - if you want me to 'pay road tax' on my bicycle - it's going to cost you £6 a year for each of your vehicles to pay for it. Do you still want me to have one? No, thought not. I also drive an electric vehical around town picking up recycling, we don't have to pay road tax eather. As usual we get people overtaking without a care for their safety or anyone elses!
Yes LICENCE BIKES £80 A YEAR THAT SHOULD COVER COSTS!
Why the heck should cyclists get away FREE when thousands are spent on tracks for them MAKE IT £100 A YEAR lets see them squirm come on lets all be equal why should a bike get a free use of our roads and some roads have been reduced to accomadate two wheels!
Posted by: exYorkist, USA on 2:40pm Fri 9 May 08
Pedestrianized streets are for PEDESTRIANS.
Cyclists want to be treated the same as motorists, i.e. same rights and considerations...but then they want to ride their bicycles down streets designated for pedestrians ONLY.
Hypocrites.
Pedestrianized streets are for PEDESTRIANS.
Cyclists want to be treated the same as motorists, i.e. same rights and considerations...but then they want to ride their bicycles down streets designated for pedestrians ONLY.
Hypocrites.
Posted by: Jason on 3:49pm Fri 9 May 08
larkin, bikes aren't registered in holland. stop talking cr*p.
larkin, bikes aren't registered in holland. stop talking cr*p.
Posted by: Gromit, South Bank on 6:36am Sat 10 May 08
larkin, I pay to use the roads, its called Council Tax. I also own a car, I choose to use it for : to quote my insurance documents: Social, domestic and pleasure purposes only. My car is not covered if I use it to commute to work. IF YOU LIVE AND WORK IN YORK YOU DO NOT NEED A CAR TO GET YOU TO WORK.
larkin, I pay to use the roads, its called Council Tax. I also own a car, I choose to use it for : to quote my insurance documents: Social, domestic and pleasure purposes only. My car is not covered if I use it to commute to work. IF YOU LIVE AND WORK IN YORK YOU DO NOT NEED A CAR TO GET YOU TO WORK.
Posted by: Gromit, South Bank on 6:38am Sat 10 May 08
larkin, I pay to use the roads, its called Council Tax. I also own a car, I choose to use it for : to quote my insurance documents: Social, domestic and pleasure purposes only. My car is not covered if I use it to commute to work. IF YOU LIVE AND WORK IN YORK YOU DO NOT NEED A CAR TO GET YOU TO WORK.
larkin, I pay to use the roads, its called Council Tax. I also own a car, I choose to use it for : to quote my insurance documents: Social, domestic and pleasure purposes only. My car is not covered if I use it to commute to work. IF YOU LIVE AND WORK IN YORK YOU DO NOT NEED A CAR TO GET YOU TO WORK.
Posted by: petethefeet, York on 11:18pm Sat 10 May 08
Larkin. You're getting bitter-and-twisted again. I'm still waiting for a rebate on my car and motorbike tax because I made the effort to use the green eco-friendly alternative.
We have far too many cars on our roads. We need some form of rationing. Perhaps 2 quid a litre will do that?
Larkin. You're getting bitter-and-twisted again. I'm still waiting for a rebate on my car and motorbike tax because I made the effort to use the green eco-friendly alternative.
We have far too many cars on our roads. We need some form of rationing. Perhaps 2 quid a litre will do that?
Posted by: Dave McBridge, York on 3:41am Mon 12 May 08
York's flat enough and small enough to cycle to work in any part of the city in decent time.
I do fulford - huntingdon in under 30mins without jumping any lights. Taking into account A19 and ring road traffic, taking the car might only save me 5 minutes.
Agreed, it's irritating to cycle in the rain/dark but for £3000 a year savings its a sacrifice i willingly make.
Taxing bikes is a stupid idea and impossible to police. How exactly are you going to fit a tax disc to a bike? where's the registration plate to match the tax disc to? what if i take the frame from one bike and the wheels from another. Do i pay 2 taxes then?
Seeing as CYC maintain most (all except a64 i believe) roads in york, i pay tax to upkeep roads and cycle paths in the form of council tax. Road tax only maintains motorways and trunk roads (and funds tony's war among other things no doubt).
Besides, oil prices ain't coming down and stocks are depleting. We've got to end our love affair with petrol within the next 100 years. Uncomfortable, but true.
York's flat enough and small enough to cycle to work in any part of the city in decent time.
I do fulford - huntingdon in under 30mins without jumping any lights. Taking into account A19 and ring road traffic, taking the car might only save me 5 minutes.
Agreed, it's irritating to cycle in the rain/dark but for £3000 a year savings its a sacrifice i willingly make.
Taxing bikes is a stupid idea and impossible to police. How exactly are you going to fit a tax disc to a bike? where's the registration plate to match the tax disc to? what if i take the frame from one bike and the wheels from another. Do i pay 2 taxes then?
Seeing as CYC maintain most (all except a64 i believe) roads in york, i pay tax to upkeep roads and cycle paths in the form of council tax. Road tax only maintains motorways and trunk roads (and funds tony's war among other things no doubt).
Besides, oil prices ain't coming down and stocks are depleting. We've got to end our love affair with petrol within the next 100 years. Uncomfortable, but true.
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